Jul 23, 2018 by ben potter there has been a great deal of focus on the differences between herodotus and thucydides. Thucydides wrote about the civil war between athens and sparta. It wasnt just vollmanns fourth reference to herodotus in a span of 20 pages in rising up and rising down, it was the reality and shame that im in my 40s and the most i know about the war between persia and the hellenic city states is what i learned from the movie 300. In order to compare and contrast the historical methods, interests, and objectives of herodotus and thucydides we must examine the characteristics of their literary method, including the narrative, description, authorial analysis, interest in accuracy, etc. The histories complete audio book recording book i clio 2 of 2. Herodotus, thucydides, and historiography research papers. In book 3, passages 102 to 105, herodotus reports that a species of foxsized, furry ants lives in one of the far eastern, indian provinces of the persian empire. Documenting these wars was obviously hard at this point of civilization, but two men did, and are now known as the great writers of their time. In the end, herodotus has done a great service for many generations, by putting down, as best he could, his understanding of the history of the various actors of his time and before. While reading the works of ancient historians such as livy, herodotus, and thucydides it is natural for one to notice a difference in how each author presents and articulates certain types of events. To these gods the persians offer sacrifice in the following manner.
Why is thucydides considered the historians historian. A comparison of herodotus and thucydides essay 611 words. He detested any reliance on the supernatural, abhorred subjectivity and strived to be as objecti. Herodotus ought least of all to be classed amongst historians. Between thucydides and polybius giovanni parmeggiani. By signing up, youll get thousands of stepbystep solutions to your. The volume includes an introduction by the editors which addresses our changing view of how. Both men have been granted the father of history accolade, but chronologically herodotus must be the winner of the distinction as thucydides picks up where he leaves off. The last three have to do with the battles between the greeks and persians. In fact, there is a noteworthy and important difference between thucydides and clausewitz.
Herodotus explored centuries of contacts between the ancient greeks and the persian empire, culminating in the persian wars of the early fifth century bc. He said you might consider the sort of writingnarrati. Thucydides himself foresaw the utility of his work. Together these ancient greek writers became the first true historians in western civilization. The volume consists of books 2 of livys history of rome and conforms to the style of other volumes in this series, such as the herodotus and thucydides both 2006 described above. Jun 12, 2017 thucydides s history of the peloponnesian war breaks off before the story is over.
This edited collection looks at two of the most important ancient greek historians living in the 5th century bce who are considered to be the founders of the western tradition of historiography. Herodotus was curious and learned everything he could about the nongreek world. Such at least was the opinion of marcellinus in his life of thucydides. Between thucydides and polybius focuses on the contribution of fourthcentury authors such as ephorus, theopompus, and xenophon to the development of greek historiography. After detailing the armed conflict between the athenians and the spartans and their respective allies between. Herodotus, the so called father of history, has stark contrast to thucydides, the so called father of realpolitik, on the way of how they interpret the historical causation. Through reading the histories of these men, one begins. What is the relation between herodotus historica and. Similarities and differences between herodotus and thucydides histories have been the topic of much research and dissertation in classic scholarship. This partitioning was a development of the third century b.
It strikes me as noteworthy that for the editors of the volume seeing connections between herodotus and thucydides necessarily results in making us better readers of botha sentiment with which i am. We know little about the personal life of herodotus. What is the difference between herodotus and thucydides in. Compare and contrast heroidotus and herodotus 1484 words. Herodotus and thucydides are not as far apart from each other as is sometimes thought. To objectively measure the difference in methods between the two of them, i used a. Herodotus or thucydides has been well visited in classical scholarship. Learn vocabulary, terms, and more with flashcards, games, and other study tools. Past and process in herodotus and thucydides virginia j. Compare and contrast the historical methods uk essays. He remains the leading source of original information not only for greek history between 550 and 479 bce but also for much of that of western asia and of egypt at that time. Herodotus visited babylon, phoenicia, egypt, southern russia, and athens, settling in the athenian colony of thurii in southern italy in 443 b. Hardly any justification is needed for the topic of this book. Dewald, carolyn, narrative surface and authorial voice in herodotus histories, arethusa, 20.
What parts of herodotus histories are accurate, and what parts are inaccurate. Herodotus and thucydides take two different approaches in recording history. Aug 02, 2018 why did you choose thucydides over herodotus on the essentials schedule for old western culture essentials schedule for reference. Historians like ephorus, theopompus, or aristotles greatnephew callisthenes, to say nothing of xenophon. Herodotus chose to write the book as prose, which may helped blur the line between fact and. Herodotus was a good story teller, thucydides was a sacked general setting the record straight. However, this title has come with some controversy, as herodotus relied on a mixture of orally passed down accounts, myths, and rumors. There has been a great deal of focus on the differences between herodotus and thucydides. Herodotus contained both facts and myths, but thucydides only had all facts. Essays examine the interface between historiography and rhetoric, while undermining the claim that historians after thucydides allowed rhetoric to prevail over research. Herodotus, in reporting the argumentation of the logioi of the persians about the hostilities between the hellenes on one side and the persians along with the phoenicians on the other side, speaks of these hostilities in terms of an opposition between europeans and asiatics 1. Comparison of herodotus and thucydides has become an increasing focus. Herodotus, although he has some interest in the facts, is mostly writing to entertain his audiences.
The introduction provides context for the translation to come. This is a debate that comes down to what you think the model historian should be. What is the difference between the works of herodotus and. The difference in size between the young and the fullgrown crocodile is greater than in any other known creature. Cicero, a roman politician and lawyer, regarded herodotus as the father of history, a title that has remained with him for centuries luce. But the greatest difference is the fact that herodotus was a real researcher, an empiricist. View herodotus, thucydides, and historiography research papers on academia. Ancient greek civilizations information on the different areas of athens and athenian society. A noteworthy difference between thucydidess method of writing history and that of modern historians is thucydidess inclusion of lengthy formal speeches that, as he states, were literary reconstructions rather than quotations of what was saidor, perhaps, what he believed ought to have been said.
Even more, you get to see how the understanding of history has changed throughout the unfolding of western society. Why did you choose thucydides over herodotus on the essentials schedule for old western culture essentials schedule for reference. The first six of books talk about legens and traditions of the people of the ancient world. What might be the difference between the works of herodotus and thucydides. There are, however, similarities between modern cultures and those in homers writing, as well as differences between modern ones and those in thucydides writing. Hunter published by princeton university press hunter, virginia j. Then, as the narrative proceeds over the nine books, they come to completely dominate.
Herodotus, being the older of the two, is flatteringly renowned as the father of history, as he provided the world with its first account of a true historical narrative the histories. If you were writing a history book about the grecopersian. Thucydides covered the first part of the war between athens and its allies and sparta and its allies. What might be the difference between the works of herodotus. In general, herodotus involves an extensive amount of theology to manifest his moral pedagogy.
Aug 09, 2017 thucydides clarity about power relations and human behavior in times of conflict gives his readers all the tools they need to see larger patterns at work that they may identify with events in their own times. And herodotus blamed god for events in history, but thucydides blamed humans. Overall, i found this to be a thoroughly absorbing book. Compare and contrast the historical methods best essay. Herodotus wrote about the wars between persia and greece. Herodotus is the the father of history he provided the oldest record on indian history by a foreigner in ancient greek geography, the basin of the indus river was on the extreme eastern fringe of the known world. Thucydides and herodotus examines the relevant relationship between these historians which is considered, especially nowadays, by historians and philologists to be more significant than previously realized. A major distinction between herodotus and thucydides writings consists in their different assessment of what history is. Compare and contrast the historical methods, interests, and objectives of herodotus and thucydides. The standard modern position holds that polybius did not know, and owed nothing to herodotus.
Thucydides was analytical, and tried to show all of the causes of the peloppesian war. The histories was never fully taken on face value and never will be, but as. The differences between herodotus and thucydides are in style. David grenes translation of herodotus the history is a good version of the greek historians magnum opus. But herodotus is more than just a pupil of homer who added geographical and ethnographical bits and pieces to his unbiased epic tale. The relationship between thucydides and herodotus, the founding fathers of. This chapter addresses the question of possible herodotean influence on polybius histories. Herodotus, the greek historian known as the father of history, describes a debate on the three government types herodotus iii. What is different about the works of herodotus and thucydides. Thucydides said that herodotus spiced up his writing with fiction to make it more interesting.
Theorist of war in addressing the difference between clausewitz and thucydides as theorists of war, murray makes the following observation. Herodotus wrote about the persian war, thucydides wrote about the peleponnesian war. Thucydides aim was a strictly accurate record of the peloponnesian war with a lead up of its origins. Herodotus concept of history, focusing on the diversity of the universal human experience, contains an expansive field of human inquiry that. The differences between herodotus and thucydides are in style, interpretation and purpose. The reader will find it difficult to keep all the people and countries straight. Although both narratives are digressions, thucydides digression is brief and clearly delineated, covering the chapters 5459 of the sixth book. What thucydides teaches us about war, politics, and the human. As others have pointed out, it is of the opinion of many that thucydides comes across as more of a persuasive orator than herodotus who, in comparison, seems to glue together everything he could find in an organized fashion and keep himself at a distance. May 03, 2012 thucydides and herodotus examines the relevant relationship between these historians which is considered, especially nowadays, by historians and philologists to be more significant than previously realized. They are both considered fathers of their respective branches of historiography.
Thucydides provides markers about the beginning and end of his digression. At a glance, both herodotus the histories and thucydides history of the. A noteworthy difference between thucydides s method of writing history and that of modern historians is thucydides s inclusion of lengthy formal speeches that, as he states, were literary reconstructions rather than quotations of what was saidor, perhaps, what he believed ought to have been said. Nov 09, 2011 a comparison of herodotus and thucydides the persian and peloponnesian wars were both significant conflicts that tested independence. As each historian is unveiled herodotus, thucydides, zenophon, and on and on you get an understanding of what the historian was saying and how he understood his subject. A first difference is that homer was a poet using a complex meter, whereas herodotus composed his logoi in prose. Although he attempted accuracy to avoid criticism, they also had to be a good story. How was thucydides different from herodotus answers. Herodotus was more of a teller of tales for instance the marvellous speeches that he and thucydides recorded in their histories werent the exact speeches the leaders delivered, but they show truly the eloquence of these men. Thucydides history is, therefore, a relational bridge between the cultures of ancient greece and modern ones. A noteworthy difference between thucydides method of writing history and that of modern historians is thucydides inclusion of lengthy formal speeches that, as he himself states, were literary reconstructions rather than actual quotations of what was said or, perhaps, what he believed ought to have been said. Xenephon took up where thucydides left off and finished the account not too well. It is suggested that some herodotean elements have filtered their way into polybius.
It is still one of the most contested historiographical subjects and has become increasingly fashionable in the past few decades, which have seen the tables turned with the rehabilitation of herodotus. Herodotus, livy, and thucydides herodutus herodotus is the greek man who is called the father of history. Gregory nagy, herodotus and the logioi of the persians. The style of herodotus is easy, spontaneous, convincing. Herodotus covers a good deal of culture and the interrelations between people and countries while often allowing himself to be sidetracked with interesting if not so relevant side notes, whereas thucydides relates the peloponnesian war with attention to the most important events, speeches, and persons involved without going into even a quarter. Theres a lot of scholarly analysis on such differences between herodotus and thucydides that get deeper at this question of who was really more truthful, but the point is, you shouldnt so easily peg herodotus as the father of lies. Fragment from herodotus histories, book viii on papyrus oxyrhynchus. What is the difference between herodotus and thucydides in terms. Thucydides and herodotus examines the relevant relationship between these historians which is considered, especially nowadays, by historians and philologists to be more significant than previously. Both men have been granted the father of history accolade, but chronologically herodotus must be the marginal winner of the distinction as thucydides picks up where he leaves off. Particularly in geographical matters, polybius seems to inhabit the same thoughtworld as. Apr 03, 2008 history as the elaborated, secular, prose narrative of public events began in 5thcentury greece, and its two fathers, herodotus and thucydides, demonstrate by their difference the wide diversity of aims and methods that the project of history can contain within itself, and the immense scope of its subject matter. In the first sentence of the histories, herodotus explained why he wrote his. In many ways, two ancient historians named herodotus and thucydides helped define and set the groundwork for what historical writing consists of.
Herodotus entertained athenians and other greeks by reading parts of his work for a fee. Eventually, thucydides and herodotus became close enough for both to be interred in thucydides tomb in athens. The relationship between thucydides and herodotus, the founding fathers of western history, has always fuelled heated debates between scholars. This region, he reports, is a sandy desert, and the sand there contains a wealth of fine gold dust. Aesthetically, i really like the newer series with its crisp poliphilus. Thucydides is regarded as the scientific historian, relying on facts, dates. The golden age of greek historiography hellenic studies series giovanni parmeggiani on. Stylistic and methodological comparison in herodotus. Things like the transitions of rulers and logic and reasoning for going to war are both recurring topics in the writing of these historians.
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